Your opponent will be shedding bloody tears. Vampire Counts are a fun army to play but boy are they hard to play. This army is not recommended for beginners. First, note that there are no shooting options in this army, effectively eliminating an entire phase. Any ranged options in this army are purely magical.
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Highlord of Terra Adrift within the vortex of my imagination. A new 8th thread, and with the two armies I recently collected, so I am all in this discussion. Vamp Core. Start with your core, choose zeds, skellies, or ghouls, each have their advantages. Zombies are not so popular because you will need a whole lot of them which means a large collection. Summon horde doesn;t work quite as well as in 7th, but it does work. However other that providing for an outrageous model count, and the poor quality of zombie sculpts fixable by buying Mantic zeds , you also MUST get off a lot of Invocation of Nehek spells.
With other options it matters less if you forgo or fail to cast for a turn or so. If I could take a form of crumble on a human or elf unit where soldiers melted away rather than the whole unit ran a bit like AoS I would take it.
I didnt like the mechanic used for regular morale, but its tactically superior. Besides you can bring undead back, and perhaps buy an extra turn. Ghouls can work as a core, it possible, even recommended to take a single block horde of ghouls and burn all your core requirement on that. Its not a bad plan, but it sticks all your eggs in one basket and against an elite hard hitting force like chaos you desperately need to play the numbers game. I would be more inclined to take ghouls and skeletons in equal numbers, you get a half decent combat block that you can use on the flank ghouls and a reserve unit skels that you can hold back and throw into battle to hold up chaos for a turn.
Having a reserve is crucial for vampire counts I find, as your armies will get to lose fights in order to win battles, also if you take master of the dead and keep the skels out of the fight, by the time they are thrown in they might be a lot bigger.
I generally say leave them behind when facing artillery lists, cannon gunners love a one shot debuff on your entire battle line provided by shooting a corpse cart. Chaos arent cannon users though. While corpse carts maximise synergy with zombies, they buff any undead unit nicely.
I dont buy into that even though the corpse cart is clearly zombie themed. ASF ghouls however are tantamount to smelly ugly witch elves with T4. ASF Grave Guard, with sword and board; now we are talking: Hitting first with killing blow in a deep formation which is Neheked back as priority and due to its location that is how you trigger ASF for next turn.
I can see that being very problematic for chaos warriors. If your opponent habitually takes them anyway then do consider corpse cart and great weapon Grave Guard, you will get to smack at I3, trump the ASL chaos warriors and brutally punish them. Next the one unit you have been missing from the discussion - Crypt Horrors.
They are nasty, in fact they are a contender for the best anvil unit in 8th, up there with nurgle elite for resilience.
T5 monstrous infantry that hits reasonably hard and comes back. Frankly they are unfair, 9tyh Age increased their price dramatically and rightly so, they are underpriced and overperforming. Nehek still works nicely on them, though not as well as Grave Guard. I would take a minuimum of six, preferably eight or nine. Hex Wraiths and Black Knights work well, but you dont need mobility vs chaos, they will be coming to you, usually.
Chaos can be a surprise effective shooty army. However marauder horse have S4 harassment shooting, most others have S3 and the range deosnt matter really. Pistoliers and dark riders are still better, but marauders are among the better light missile horse.
Then go back to launching what is one of the best artillery attacks in warhammer. The Hellcannon can cause big problems.. Now if the chaos player takes artillery then you will likely need a counter, but what to counter with, it must be able to deal with a T6 monster, normal cannon hunting rules dont apply Hellcannon dont fight fair. All in all you might as well not bother with most mobile units beyond redirectors as you have little need of them, if you do face Hellcannon you can hope to suck up the losses better than almost any other army in the game anyway.
The trap choice in special are Spirit Hosts. Normally they are prime chaff units, deployed singly and on a par with Great Eagles for the chaff role. Trouble is they crumble real easy so some players take blocks of them to hold. This is normally a solid tactic, against most armies, but not against others.
Warriors of Chaos is one of those others. First you face a faction with magic based ranged attacks, second ensorcelled weapons and third because Chaos mortals are a hero army and chaos heroes tend to go bigger on magic weaponry than most factions. My one issue at this point is that you really cant afford all this in your army. A decent Vamp list shoul look to fill out its special choice options, choose wisely.
A word on the Rare choices. Again make sure you are facing a non artillery army, as these things a huge bulls eye.. If you are playing blind its worth buying Mortis engines because while Hellcannon are an effective build, they arent common so your engines should be reaonably safe from being detonated.
If you want to go the Mortis engine route take one to back up a ghoul ghouls and crypt horrors based army, and two to back up a skellie skels and grave guard based army for maxmimum effectivness.
The model is a must have in any event and once you have it you have to use it from time to time. The alternative are to buy Terrorgheists.
I left this last because really one needs to, despite the essential nature of vampire characters to an undead army that is entirely reliant on their presence to exist, it is wrong to focus on the characters before the army. Blender lord, yes thats impressive, but it costs a whole lot and is frankly unnecessary half th time.
Blender lords are also noted as not being quite as good in a challenge than some specialist lords, of which the Chaos Lord is one. Blenders are there to slaughter rank and file and win combat NOT for challenges. Besides even when you think you know what you are facing Eye of the Gods can change all that, and if the Eye roll is expanded by having a Chaos Shrine the Chaos champions can cherry pick their buffs to counter an existing threat.
Your vamps cant do that. I would go with Sword of Might as its optimum. You halve the price but keep most of the punch. The real reason to consider a vampire lord at all is to get Ld Nobody else comes remotely close, the next best is Ld8, with a Strigoi being another type of Vampire Lord in all but name. However if you cant afford a ld10 general so be it, extra crumble is not that big a deal.
You can make your entire army out of hero level characters and not lose much effectiveness, and if if it spares more points for special choices then you are doing fine.
So what to consider. Vampire lord? It will be enough. Necromancer lord - a safer bet and the more usual option for a high level wizard. Multiple vampires - my preferred choice. You might lose one but if spread around they will deny the worst of crumble from loss of general and allow you to recover quickly.
Two or three cheap vampires plus a necro is enough, and most can be level 1 casters, roll for each of them even if at least two will need to be casting nehek. Choose those two as you see the results.
Wight King - love to but cant. Wraiths and Banshees - likewise. Both are good, but you army needs to be tight when facing chaos warriors, and that means placing your trust in your special choices, not your characters frankly. The mistake people make with a screamer list is to try and back it up with Doom and Darkness. I suggest you dont.
For every caster running death you have one less casting lore of Vampires, which is not really a good idea. If you want lore of Death take a level 4 with it, you will have a good chance of getting what you want, and back him up with two or three nehek chanters of one type or another. One last point, consider Mannfred the Acolyte, one of the few decently priced special characters in warhammer. Yes he costs pts for a level 2 vampire, and he has no ward save, but he does have a nifty sword that he shouldnt really try to use unless well backed up and he is the cheapest loremaster in warhammer that I know of.
There is no obligation to take him as your general so you can afford to miscast with him and use lore attribute to claw back the wound you will likely take. Mannfred offers certainty in the magic preparation, something most armies desperately need and cant get, and vampires need certainty more than any other. You can place Manny in the part of th line drawn up when you make the list, knowing in advance that he can attempt to cast Vigour or Vanhels or Nehek, no arguing or random selection getting in the way.
Thats all from me for now. One disclaimer, I am still fairly new to both these armies, so I am not a true gurur on them, but my focus is on both of them, and I have done a lot of research and watched a number of videos bioth 9th Age and 8th. I highly recommend the Vampire Counts tutorials on the Carpe Noctem forums, found in the Teachings of Abhoresh section of the website.
I also recommend looking at the 8th edition tactical reviews on 1d4chan, they are rather seedy and crude but have a decent eye for value in the books.
Other research has led me to YouTube, sometimes Warseer and a lot of the time right back here to Dakka. Now I do run chaos very differently to most, so my view on the faction is admittedly skewed somewhat, but most of what I have said about the faction refers to the common wisdom of effective list building, not my own.
This does admittedly gimp my list, but as Warriors of Chaos are somewhat OP I dont mind, and hile mark upgrade are cheap for what they do, they do add up and my Chaos Undivided horde can be impressively and suitably large especially at 3k points. All I can say about my own list experience here is beware of budget chaos warriors. I run mine in blocks of 20, four ranks with sword and board, full command, and no marks.
They still kick arse when vanilla; and can afford more of them than usual. I did this because with exception of certain specific units and the new AoS stuff all the chaos mortals were modelled as undivided. I didnt want to take a basic chaos warrior give him a red paint job and say he worships Khorne. If my warriors worship Khorne I would use AoS core set miniatures for them. Warriors choose Khorne or Nurgle because their tribe does, not because they dual wield or have a great weapon.
Most of all, the cheaper armies plus adding some token blocks of marauders as padding made my Chaos HORDE to be worthy of the name. High ish model count, about on a par with Dark Elves, it certainly looks impressive more so when I eventually bother to field them painted , and the full rank bonuses and general numbers fielded give me some leeway that most chaos players dont get.
Not to be confused with Vampire Count Title. Let the splintered bones burrow from the grave pall. Let cold fingers grip time-worn blades, and unseeing eyes survey the fields of slaughter. For your time has come once more. And the dead shall walk again. The Vampire Counts are amongst the most legendary faction of Vampires to have ever terrorised the civilised lands of the Old World , all of whom are known to be the bearer of the unholy blood of the Von Carstein bloodline. They seek only to topple the civilisations of the living and supplant them with an Undead Empire that shall reign forever as Lords of the Night.
Warhammer/Tactics/8th Edition/Vampire Counts
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